Now Accepting Nominations for “Worst Shopping Center in St. Louis City”
I think it is time I begin handing out some “awards” in St. Louis to recognize the efforts of those architects, engineers, planners, developers, bureaucrats and politicians making St. Louis such a special place to live. I want you to help in the nomination and selection process.
First up, shopping centers. This is not the voting process yet but simply gathering the list of places to be listed and ranked. I thought about some nomination criteria and I think we need to exclude a couple of types. First, I would exclude single use places such as the Target on Hampton and the Schnuck’s on Grand & Gravois — I’m thinking it is better to look only at those projects which include multiple tenants. We could, in the future, look at single-use commercial development. The other exclusion I’m thinking is those that are older than say 15 years. I’ve listed some excluded places below but if you feel strongly about including one by all means indicate why below in the comments.
Other criteria would include a project with private drives and parking — making it a center. The question becomes, do we include a project such as the building at Grand & Arsenal with the Kinko’s and Breadco? It certainly meets all my criterial for a shopping center. Perhaps the criteria needs to be only those places with parking in front? Those more urban projects could be included in a list for best shopping center although at this time that is a really short list!
Here is the eight I’ve compiled so far, in alphabetical order. If you all come up with 2 more we can have a top-ten list:
• Gravois Plaza; Gravois west of Grand
• Lindell Marketplace, Lindell @ Sarah (divided by Sarah but built at the same time so we’ll treat as one)
• Loughborough Commons; Loughborough between I-55 and Grand
• MLK Plaza; MLK & Page at Grand
• Roberts Plaza; between Page & MLK at Euclid (behind former Sears)
• Schnuck’s City Plaza; Union & Natural Bridge
• Southtown Centre; Chippewa & Kingshighway
• St. Louis Marketplace; Manchester Road
Excluded for reasons of age, impending replacement etc:
• Chariton Plaza; S. Broadway between Meramec & Osceola
• Hampton Village
• St. Louis Centre, downtown
• Christy Plaza, Kingshighway @ Delor (Office Depot, Burlington Coat, etc…)
• Other?
Once everyone has had a say in the nomination process I will gather photos on the projects on the list (I have them already for most I’ve listed above). I will then do a post listing all the projects with links to the photos of each. I’m still debating if I should give them my own ranking at that time or let you all vote and then determine my ranking afterwards — please share your thoughts below on how you’d like to see this happen.
A natural follow up to this would be the worst shopping center in St. Louis County. That, however, will take far more work as the number of bad sprawl-based centers is quite long. Think about the entire region and it boggles the mind — Jefferson County and St. Charles County have some real loser projects as do the counties in Illinois. Makes you wonder who will get more awards — THF or DESCO? I was also thinking if we could come up with multiple categories — “Worst Shopping Center with a Big Box Grocery,” or “Worst Shopping Center Since Rollin Stanley Came to St. Louis,” or focus on a particular aspect such as “Worst Pedestrian Access by a Shopping Center.” Get creative with possible categories! Another could be, “Least convincing excuse for mediocrity by a developer or alderman.”
If you have any suggestions on what the “Worst of Development” award should look like give me some ideas on that as well. I could actually have a physical award made and then track down the developer and present it to them on camera — Michael Moore style. Also, I’m thinking each month we go through this process of selecting a “worst of” in a category and actually having an awards function where I rent a hall and give a slide presentation on the worst development in St. Louis. Think of it as a rebalancing compared to all the self congratulating awards given out in political and development circles.
Do you think the Gills would comp you a nite at the Moolah (appropriate name, huh? “Moolah”?) to host your annual awards ceremony?
Who would be on your VIP invite list? Do you think any aldermen would show up?
That’d show who the true progressives are in St. Louis leadership, eh?
Great concept though. It could be quite hilarious.
Imagine all the possiblities for award presenters.
Also submitted for your approval:
-The strip mall just east of the Shop N Save at Kingshighway and Chippewa
-The center at the southeast corner of Delmar and Kingshighway
I think this is a great and funny idea.
UR wrote:
“to recognize the efforts of those architects, engineers, planners, developers, bureaucrats and politicians making St. Louis such a special place to live.”
Please include the project team for each nomination. It will be interesting to know the team members responsible for making some of the worst developments in town.
In addition, you should consider having a “best design” award too. You need to keep it balanced and too much negativity is never good, do you agree?
Steve, this really needs to happen as a real awards ceremony, not just on this website. Awards should be given out at Mokabe’s or some other urban-minded business. I’m sure the owners would be more than happy to host. You could come up with a PowerPoint of all the winners. It might attract the attention of the local press and get the word out about our frustration with anti-urban design in the city.
Also, you need to come up with a catchy name for the awards themselves, kind of like the Oscars, or their counterpart, the Razzies.
Potential Categories:
Worst Roberts Brothers Development (Proposed)
Worst Roberts Development (Built)
Most Egregious Lack of Sidewalks
Worst Use of the Best Intersection/Corner
Worst Shopping Center (South Side)
Worst Shopping Center (North Side)
Worst Shopping Center (Central Corridor)
Most Likely to Be Demolished in 10 Years or Less
Best Patio/Outdoor Dining in Sea of Parking
[Think Cold Stone Creamery and Starbucks in Southtown)
Worst Designed Parking Lot
The Black Thumb award (no greenery in the development–all pavement)
Worst Loading Dock
Worst Developer
The Antisocial Shopper Award (development that most disrespects its surrounding neighborhood and neighbors)
Most Devastated Neighborhood
I could go on, but those should be good for now.
“Worst Roberts Development (Built)”
Tough call. The competition might get heated on this one.
Quite difficult to select one as they are pretty much all the same.
I like having the different categories and would add Most Egregious Use of ED, Most Residents Displaced, Largest TIF, Worst Parking Arrangement, etc. added to the list already mentioned. Best Reason to Shop on the Net and Autoholics’ Only are my favorites.
I’m uncetain about separate categories for the City, the Inner Suburbs, Outer Burbs, etc. because of the autoholic culture here is so dominant.
Perhaps you can help by pointing out a few positve features… can you find any?
Define “worst”. What constitutes “good”? Urban design? Architectural design? Sales per square foot? Most residences razed to build/expand? Worst mix of tenants? Most vacancies? Highest crime rate? Most yuppies? Bad maintenance/dated finishes? It’s all in the eye of the beholder . . .
I gotta think that St. Louis Marketplace has to be the overall winner – not only is it almost completely dead, but the city is responsible for covering the bond payments on it as well. What a disaster.
Rhetorical question – if it’s old, does it make it good?!
http://www.suburbansquare.com/history.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Club_Plaza
Age does not make it “good,” if anything the older developments show us how little we have progressed.
Are you excluding older developments because there’s no one left to receive the award (alderman, developer)? Or because you are excusing their naivete about urban design since it is possible they didn’t know any better?
How many storefronts have to be included to be considered a “shopping center”?
How about awards for “Worst Neighborhood”? Or “Worst Ward”?
Let’s get with the program-it’s campaign season!
Go negative people!!
As others have said there are different worst.
Biggest waste of a great site:
– Not a shopping center, but the Highlands (former Arena site) is a complete waste of the city’s best large scale retail site
– DeBalivere strip center near the MetroLink station
– Southtowne Centre
Greatest Blunder by the Slay Administration: Demolition of the Century Building
The Slay administration?
Go read the sign on the garage project.
It reads like a who’s who in St. Louis politics.
Well, since we’re (allegedly) discussing urban design on this site, let’s focus on the worst (and best) designs, both architectural and/or urban, and leave out profitability, tenant mix, crime, maintenance, etc., etc. . . .
The sign on the garage project doesn’t have the names of any elected officials-only agencies.
It was the sign on the Old Post Office rehab that had the list of elected officials in support.
I personally like Hampton Village a lot. Very walkable.
By definition, shopping centers are auto-centric. And, yes, ADA requires pedestrian connections. But if the goal of this post is to recognize the worst shopping centers, you need to look at the whole experience.
Inside the city, Hampton Village is actually one of the better centers – it ain’t perfect by a long shot, but it has a good vibe to it. If nothing else, it deserves credit for hanging in there for ±50 years and not ending up with just check-cashing places and consignment stores. It actually is a decent neighborhood center, with a department store, bookstore, grocery store, restaurants, etc. It also has some mature landscaping and some architectural style (ersatz colonial, not my kind of style or aesthetic, but at least it’s consistent and maintained). The larger area (not just the SE corner of Hampton & Chippewa) is also a mixed bag – a new Target on the SW corner, with a library a block further south, a mid-fifties bank on the NW corner that has the potential for either being restored (good) or replaced by typical 21st-century architecture (not so good) and a fifties-vintage grocery store turned music store a block north, and a new Walgreen’s* on the NE corner. The entire corner has the potential for glorifying mid-century modern commercial architecture. And because it’s successful, it also has the potential for being redeveloped with more typical 21st-century “architecture” (the suburban kind).
*I’m not a Walgreen’s hater. Yes, they seem to be on every major corner, and yes, they do seem to be trying to corner the market at the expense of the old mom-and-pop places. I see them, however, being a whole lot better than the alternatives, either the 7-11/Circle-K/Convenient Food Mart scenario I see in way too many other cities or the QT/On-the-Run mega-gas station + convenience store scenario that seems to be the current suburban favorite everywhere. Walgreens is willing to build new stores in sometimes marginal urban neighborhoods, they generally make some attempt to relate architecturally to the area (if pushed), and they serve a real purpose for the local residents, providing some groceries, some sundries and a local source for needed medications, and in many places where the bigger grocery stores are unwilling to go. They’re not your 1940’s corner grocery, they’re the 2006 version!
I need to do some cruising around before I come up with my worst-10 list – I try to ignore this kind of stuff, and not a lot jumps to mind immediately . . .
How about an award for the most religous neighborhood group in St. Louis?
The latest Carondelet Community Betterment Federation newsletter just came out.
The first nine articles contain references to Catholic churches, nuns, or neighborhood meetings held at churches.
Shopping centers do not have to be auto-centric to be successful or to be so in name. It helps to be convenient for walkers and auto users alike but not a necessary condition as posited.
Michigan Ave., the MagMile, has no parking along the street. Try to park nearby and you’ll pay $20 for the first hour. Definitely not auto-centric but truly successful. Density with quality and an affluent base is obvious but so are the others who don’t fit these conditions.
Many other successful shopping mecas in the Chicagoland area exist that do not provide parking areas. For one in the burbs that does provide parking but is also enjoyable for walkers, visit Old Orchard in Skokie. Parking is provided in the perimeter but the shopping area is designed for those who enjoy the open-air environment.
An accurate description: Old Orchard was a prototype for the suburban shopping center when it opened in 1956. Old Orchard changed the habits of the suburbanites, who no longer found it necessary to go downtown for fine shopping within a facility known for its garden-like atmosphere. During the 1980’s, the center languished a bit, due in part to the economy but also resulting from the opening of major enclosed shopping malls. Old Orchard was redeveloped in the mid-1990’s with a new design featuring welcoming places to sit, read, visit with friends, a number of fine restaurants, a large bookstore, children’s play area, a water garden and movie theaters.
Yes I use to live nearby and enjoyed this mall with my family. But of course it was nothing like what you will find here. Is it perfect? No, but definitely better than anything here and is convenient even for mass transit users.
There are many shopping areas in Europe that truly are pedestrian friendly, attractive, and successful and are not auto-centric. To explain the differences, to what is available here, would take a much longer post.
In STL the parking lot/garage is built/considered first which is a strong statement by local developers about the people who live here.
There’s a difference between shopping centers and shopping districts. Centers are typically have only one owner that sets the standard, while districts have multiple owners and evolve over time. The Magnificent Mile is a district, an extension of the downtown shopping district. And Old Orchard is a good example of an older shopping center that’s managed to survive and, to a certain extent, reinvent itself. The million dollar question remains, however, just exactly how do you get an Old Orchard or a Country Club Plaza built today? When developers are less local, less altruistic and more focused on the bottom line?!
How, Jim? A few decapitated horse heads on a few pillows, the right people will get the message.
Yes, I’m kidding.
“mid-fifties bank on the NW corner [of Hampton and Chippewa]”
Actually, the Lindell Bank on the corner @ 6001 Chippewa was built in 1986. I remember it being built! It was originally Savings of America, but they sure didn’t stick around long. There had been a bowling alley on that site in the past.
The bank next door @ 6025 Chippewa currently occupied by National City was built in 1962. Does it need rehabbing? I didn’t think it was in particularly bad condition. Not sure how much of the upper floors they use though.
There are a lot of banks near that intersection, to be sure. I guess that’s because there’s a lot of money in that area! Even the Buder Library building was, at one time, a location of Missouri Savings.