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Sunday Poll: How would you rate conditions today compared to just prior to Mike Brown’s death?

August 9, 2015 Featured, Ferguson, St. Louis County, Sunday Poll 31 Comments

One year ago today Michael Brown was fatally shot by Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson. For today’s poll, a barometer of how things stand today compared to a year ago.

Please vote below, the answers are presented in random order. The “conditions” are left up to you to interpret.

 

The poll is open until 8pm.

— Steve Patterson

 

Currently there are "31 comments" on this Article:

  1. JZ71 says:

    A few small improvements, with courts and policing, but racism is still running strong and deep, the murder rate continues to rise and unemployment among young black males continues to remain stubbornly higher than that of other demographic groups. We may be more sensitive to the realities, but the realities don’t seem to be changing . . .

     
  2. guest says:

    When all is said and done, more is usually said, than done.

     
  3. guest says:

    Well, given this morning’s news…I’d say “worse”. Definitely worse. Or the same. But which is worse? The “same” or “worse”? Really no difference. Maybe this is a classic case of how planners and meetings just don’t cut it. Nor slogans. People need help TODAY. They need INTERVENTION. They need RESOURCES. They need ATTENTION. They need LOVE.

     
    • Mark-AL says:

      ……and they need to be respectful of laws; they need to discipline their children, and one way to facilitate this is for Dad to give up his one-nighters and move back home; they need to teach their children that when the police give an order, the police mean what they say; they need to teach their children that hard work and sacrifice will reap more rewarding benefits than looting, complaining and incessant marching; they need to instill a sense of morality in their children so that the next generation learns to respect women and fully support any progeny that the relationship brings; they need to teach their kids that the honorable way to acquire “RESOURCES” is through hard work and lots of sweat–not from stealing, looting and another government-sponsored handout; by example, they need to somehow communicate to their children that a ‘relationship’ is more than a night or two of drinking, dancing and sex; they need less intervention and to exercise more personal responsibility; and by example, they need to learn that people who LOVE and respect themselves and others don’t spend their days and nights on street corners and in moving vehicles, randomly shooting their firearms at one another. I’m becoming more and more convinced that certain races will never be compatible.

      Reading in this morning’s Post all about the events last night in and around Ferguson, I find comfort knowing that my wife and kids were at home last night doing what families do on a Sunday night–continuing to enjoy one another as a family and preparing for another day of work and school. They weren’t out on the street corners looking for more opportunities to act like fools.

      It’s much easier and more exciting to march around endlessly and demonstrate, than it is to take care of business and become productive, responsible wage-earners.

       
      • guest says:

        ^ the voice of empathy, compassion, and concern has spoken.

         
        • Mark-AL says:

          Characterize it however you wish. Why sugarcoat the truth? That’s been going on for over a half century!

           
          • Bobby Friend says:

            You voiced the opinions and concerns of many in an articulate manner. The problems in Ferguson started in the 1960’s. Households and communities need to resolve the issues of today, as the federal government is not capable.

             
          • guest says:

            Lecturing the oppressed is hardly a path to greater understanding, is it?

             
          • Mark-AL says:

            So what’s the solution? Even more compassion? More welfare? More resources? More attention? How much more attention/compassion/welfare can STL afford to give? How long can you turn our backs on blatant criminal behavior? How long will mainstream society accept canonizing a character whose actions typify thuggery and punkishness? When any responsible parent raises a kid, after a certain age/achievement/milestone, the kid is turned out to survive on his own. When are these demonstrators/marchers going to be turned out on their own, willing to accept responsibility for their own lives? It isn’t going to happen if you continue to allow them to act like untamed animals, continue to rescue/canonize them even when they’ve made poor judgments, spoon feed them through every meal of their day. I can’t believe what I’m seeing in St Louis, and I shutter when I think about what’s coming. 200 murders this year? Hah! I’d be willing to bet you’ll be closer to 250!

             
          • guest says:

            Conflating the acts of criminals with the broader “Black Lives Matter” movement is an easy way to confuse the issue. Criminal acts are not defensible. The Black Lives Matter movement has legitimate concerns. Start by sorting out the issues as part of finding the solution.

             
          • Mark-AL says:

            You are right. The Black Lives Matter movement is a legitimate one. So is the White Lives Matter. So is the Policemen’s Lives Matter. Convince me that today’s Black youth in general give a damn about anyone other than themselves–black or white.

             
          • guest says:

            You’re conflating again. Isolating black youth in the Black Lives Matter discussion diminishes the concerns of the larger community – black, white, and everything in between. Also, throwing around slogans like “White Lives Matter” and “Policemen’s Lives Matter” as a response to the “Black Lives Matter” is another obfuscation. That would be like going into a gay rights rally and shouting “Conservative Christian Rights Matter!”. That’s great if you want to pick a fight. Not very helpful if you are seeking peace and understanding.

             
          • Mark-AL says:

            Well, I’m here to state that Christian rights, both conservative and liberal, do matter. And just as it is incumbent on conservative Christians to recognize the rights of gays, it is equally important to gays to recognize the beliefs of conservative Christians. But both gays and conservative Christians have equal responsibility to respect the other. Just as with blacks and whites. So, IMO, if it’s appropriate to remind society that Black lives matter, it is equally important to remind society that White lives AND policemen’s lives both matter as well. Try to convince a policeman’s family, white or black, otherwise! And let’s not forget that today’s black youth is tomorrow’s black adult. So if the black community fails to discipline and control and demonstrate sincere interest in their youth, they in effect are allowing the stereotypical behaviors of black adult men to play out in the next generation. This SHOULD be a major concern of the black community, but it appears to be a back-burner concern vs attending rallies, marches, demonstrations, and actively participating in looting and general property destruction. It’s so much easier to march for an afternoon than to help your son with a book report or math problem. Black parents raising their kids need to take a cue from a simple farmer . If a smart farmer wants to plant corn, he must earn some money and then buy seed; then he has to spend his valuable time preparing the soil for planting. After preparing the soil,he can finally plant the seeds. Then he has to water and fertilize. In the meantime, he needs to keep the weeds under control. But if he’s lazy and if he fails to prepare the soil, and if he ignores the weeds, no matter how much water and fertilizer he dumps on the corn, the corn will not yield. I think blacks have to spend more time preparing the soil and keeping the weeds out of their kids lives. I will seek to understand when I recognize an effort has been made toward improvement.

             
      • John R says:

        It is the year 20 freaking 15 and the troglodytes are typing from their caves…. “I’m becoming more and more convinced that certain races will never be compatible.” I hate stepping into racist hogsh*t.

         
        • Mark-AL says:

          It’s hardly racist. It’s reality–based on reality. Show me ONE positive/proven indicator that the two races are coming together in STL? JUST ONE! Is it safe to drive your car along MLK at 12 Midnight? Would you dare to walk from Tucker on Locust west to Jefferson after dusk?

           
        • Mark-AL says:

          So, John R, how long should we wait for Blacks to blend into a culture that they OBVIOUSLY want to blend into? (And please don’t tell me that I have to blend into and/or accept their culture!!) They’ve had 50+ years of hand-outs and hand-ups, and they still can’t get it right!. The Japanese managed it fully in less than 15 year after the war. The Jews, even after being driven almost to extinction, are up and running again stronger than ever, almost without missing a beat. I live in Frankfurt, Germany. My neighborhood is composed of fully 75% Jews. Imagine the thought of a Jew prospering in Germany! How is it that the Jews and the Japanese were able to overcome their past oppression/injustices, and not the Black community? What’s missing in the Black community–beyond commitment to family, a dedication to the family unit, a protestant work ethic, and a sense of self worth that screams that it’s better to earn it rather than to be given it! If I’m living in a cave, John R, then you’re living in the clouds and wearing rose-colored glasses. Take off the glasses, John R. Look at STL the way it really is, vs how you think you might like it to be. And in the meantime, don’t expect too much cooperation from the Black community. Based on their prior performance, they won’t MAKE anything happen because they’ll be waiting around for others to bring it to them.

           
          • guest says:

            I’m not convinced that “Mark-AL”and “JZ” are two different people, tone similarities and all, but that’s beside the point. “Mark-AL”, you really don’t understand the black experience in the US, do you?

             
          • Mark-AL says:

            What I understand of the “black experience” is that it is unique and few other experiences are quite like it. I understand that black families in the US were forced into slavery, and families were separated from one another for a time, and that many families never again rejoined. I understand that for too many years, blacks were denied basic, fundamental and God-given rights and privileges. But I also understand the difference between past tense and present tense, and the subjunctive tense ! I know just enough history, too, to understand that for many decades, Blacks have been given opportunities that were never offered to other ethnic groups who also were oppressed at various times in history. But for the most part, the other ethnic groups got along fine and essentially recovered without the handouts. But the Blacks, by and large, accepted the opportunities–the handouts–, but for some reason, they typically failed to derive benefit from those opportunities, Blacks accepted them as benefits to meet immediate needs, and waited around for the next round of benefits to appear. Jews, Japanese and, more rececently, Bosnians all recovered from years of oppression and near annihilation, and have now become contributing, vital components of society’s fabric. They too were all beat to hell, and yet they set their minds to recovery–and they recovered. The Germans weren’t favorite sons after the war, were they? But today, they they have assimilated.into mainstream US culture, unnoticed. When’s the last time you heard a Jew bitch about those “damn Germans”? Have you met with any resentment from your Japanese friends as a result of any “fallout” from the war? Have you heard them bitch about Grandma choking to death from the bomb, or about their brother’s birth deformities from the radiation? When I lived in LA, some of my closest associates were Japanese. I even worked in Japan, and I was accepted there and without issue! Never were the Japanese lazy; never were they deceptive; and never were they threatening to me because of my Southern Anglo-Saxon heritage-Today, if I mentioned to a typical Black person the fact that I grew up in an area where just about everyone had at least one slave at one point in history, I wonder how those Blacks would react? What’s the difference here between the blacks and others who have suffered from US and world-wide oppression? I think it’s simple: The Japanese, like the Jews and the Bosnians, exercise personal initiative, and they dig-in when the going gets rough. They don’t look to outsiders to solve their problems, and they gain strength from family commitments and monogamy. I don’t see the Black community, in general, doing anything close.
            Yes, guest, I do understand the Black Experience in the US. And I know that it can’t be used as an excuse forever–can it? God, I hope not!

             
          • guest says:

            Jews had their issues in Germany. America is a refuge for them and US GIs rescued them. Japanese were a successful people before WW2, and they were our enemies along with Germans and Italians. Blacks were stripped of their culture by the US, not so the Japanese. Bosnians too were saved by the US. Blacks, on the other hand, were direct victims of US policy for hundreds of years and still face discrimination today. You really can’t compare the US treatment of Blacks to the US treatment of Jews, Bosnians, Asians, etc. Plus skin color. There’s a lot of hate and discrimination in this country just based on dark skin.

             
          • guest says:

            Japanese internment was a blip in US history. Discrimination against blacks has gone for 400 years – longer than the age of the nation.

             
          • JZ71 says:

            EVERY wave of imigrants has faced/faces discrimination. Most try to adapt to American culture, work hard and, eventually, get ahead. It may (and usually does) take several generations, but it does happen. Here, now, African Americans happen to be the minority that gets the least respect. Go to the southwest (Arizona, Colorado, Texas) and you’ll find Hispanics facing the same virulent racism and discrimination that blacks face here. Do I endorse, support or condone any of it? No, absolutely not. But I can’t be responsible for everyone else’s attitudes, perceptions and/or life experiences, knuckle draggers, confederate flag wavers and Black Panther members included. But, I will repeat, respect is earned, it’s not just given, because you think yiu somehow deserve it . . .

             
          • Mark-AL says:

            There is no question you are right that Jews initially had issues to deal with in Germany. But today, it appears that those issues are addressed. The JEWS made progress, and I credit the Jews more than the Germans. As you stated, the Japanese were successful both before and after the war. Hand it to the Japanese for quickly getting in step and not allowing a “minor” setback–like a bombing– stand in the way of their hard work, determination, concentration, sacrifices and follow-through. Did I mention “hard work”?

            Your final point is an interesting one: “There’s a lot of… discrimination…based on (their) dark skin.” When I studied at the U of I for my masters, I lived above the (now) Jimmy Johns Restaurant on campus. One night, my (now) wife was walking home after studying, well after the fast-food business had closed for the evening. She glanced ahead and noticed a group of 5 black men hanging out, just outside our narrow covered doorway that led to the 2nd floor apartments. She hesitated before proceeding to the door, told herself that she needed to ‘get over it’ and approach the door just as if the group were composed of white men. Well, she was wrong! While removing the door key from her purse, they grabbed her and threw her on the sidewalk, kicked her in the hip, ripped a $15.00 Timex watch from her wrist, and ran away with her purse: which contained all of $7.00. She had left her cell phone in the lab. I KNOW it could have happened had the group been composed of white men. But it didn’t. And it hasn’t happened since. Why? Even today, she deliberately avoids groups of black men, but she doesn’t take any special precautions when whites are involved. Just a coincidence, I’m sure!

            Could it be……..possible………..that Blacks are responsible for the common association between “black” and “crime”? Could Blacks have some fault here? And if so……………………………………isn’t it time… they do something…. about it………………? Isn’t it time for Sharpton, et al. to speak the hard truth?

             
          • Mark-AL says:

            Read the feature article in today’s Post about MR TYRONE HARRIS. And if that isn’t enough, follow the links in the comments section, then take a look at his FACEBOOK photos. Then ask yourself if America should embrace diversity.

             
          • Mark-AL says:

            I think you’re off your mark, Guest. JZ is much more refined than I am, and by far more politically correct. I’m a goat farmer who ascribes to Harry Truman’s thoughts about political correctness, who held the proposition that PC is an illogical doctrine that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end.

             
          • JZ71 says:

            Mark and I are certainly different people, even though we share some similar perspectives. And my comments about all of us being prejudiced and many people still being racists is just stating the unfortunate reality – sometimes the truth is uncomfortable and/or may not fit your world view.

             
  4. JZ71 says:

    One fundamental challenge, that Mark alluded to, is the need to conform to larger societal norms. Expecting the majority to embrace any minority’s unique [whatever] rarely works out well, in the long run – see the “great American melting pot”. Few people are in the position to choose everyone, when hiring someone, when choosing who to hang out with, when choosing who to procreate with, where we choose to spend our money, so we are constantly making choices, picking winners (and losers), discriminating. Most people make choices that they are most comfortable with; few people choose to be constantly uncomfortable. Bitter and marginalized is one choice, conforming and finding that it’s easier to “get ahead” is another choice. Life is full of choices . . .

     
    • guest says:

      Melting pot is no longer the politic expression. Try salad.

       
      • JZ71 says:

        There is no consensus on the issue. Call it what you want, but you can either choose to fit in or you can choose to remain apart. http://lajhsslab.com/peopling/people2.htm

         
      • Bobby Friend says:

        Salad? I heard that a few years ago and it certainly made me chuckle, a bit. America is a melting pot and that’s what makes it work for most. Assimilation is key to successfully building a strong, inclusive America. People can still maintain their cultural identify within a family without having to live in cultural clusters or hyphenate their origin. In my business I encounter many people from around the world that created a new/different life for themselves in America and they are recent immigrants so they didn’t arrive here via Ellis Island. Bosnian’s, Italian’s, Hispanic’s, African’s, Indian’s etc. — a melting pot of people. They work smart and hard to be successful and have had to adjust to American culture, which can be very challenging for some.

         

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