An Urban Plan for the Grand & Gravois Schnuck’s Site
Architect, fellow blogger and friend Steve Wilke-Shapiro continues to focus his attention on the city’s 15th Ward on his blog, 15thWardSTL. His latest post looks at the aging big box Schnuck’s bounded by Grand, Cherokee, Gravois and Potomac.
A bit of background: The total area, including a couple of properties owned by others, is roughly 6 acres. The current store was built in 1989 and is listed by the city records as having just under 74,000sf. This refers to the total building area whereas when we hear talk of say, their new location in Loughborough Commons being 63,000sf, that refers to the sales floor only and thus excludes storage and prep area.
Wilke-Shapiro has re-examined the site from an urbanist perspective and is suggesting ways in which DESCO/Schnuck’s could rebuild in the future to maximize their land value, improve the feel and character of the area and add to the diversity of uses in the area. Where this is different than say the McDonald’s drive-thru battle down the street is there is no plan for the area for which this is an alternate in protest. No, this is a design exercise to show how the urbanist thinking can be applied.
Hopefully by focusing on an area not being debated over a current plan the doubters and naysayers of urbanist planning can see the potential for these ideas. Click here (or the thumbnail image) to view his excellent post.
Other than some geometry issues with the truck loading dock (turning radii needed to maneuver 48′ and 52′ trailers), this has some serious possibilities IF Schnucks buys into the idea of parking under the store. My experience is that the grocery guys want it out front and at grade, although I’ve seen a Ralph’s (I think) in southern California that does this and seems to work . . .
Thanks for the link – I hope some people take the time to leave comments on my site. I will take them into account in the next version.
If anyone from Schnuck’s is reading: as a consumer, I prefer underground or attached garage parking for trips like major grocery shopping and malls where I might be loaded down with bags – helps in inclement weather. When it rains, watch the people stack up at the entrances to Schnuck’s and the Galleria while they wait for the right opportunity to make a mad dash 200 feet (or more) to their cars.
Underground is better in the blazing heat of the summer. My car isn’t 120 degrees after an hour in the store. Underground is better in the bitter cold of the winter as well because don’t have to scrape the windshield after an hour in the store… I think you get the idea.
so are they looking to redevelop the area? The report was not clear in that respect. (yes it did state that there is currently no plan for new building). I would think that focusing attention on a vacant building or more dilapidated properties and vacant lots to do this study would be more beneficial than to apply it to a grocery store that will probably not be torn down for another 10 years if ever.
That being said, I think the proposal is awesome and would definitely back any support for such an effort! Maybe you should see if Steve W-S would do the same thing on that huge area just east of Kingshighway!
If Schnuck’s is looking to redevelop that store, it is not public information. I would bet you that the fate of this store has been discussed among the execs, though. I will be very surprised if that store hasn’t been abandoned, sold, renovated, or rebuilt within 6 years.
My point with this exercise was not to submit a development proposal, but to help push a dialogue about how we want our neighborhood to work. I think most people feel powerless to ask for change because they either don’t speak the “language” of urban development, don’t feel like their opinions will be taken into account, don’t know that there ARE other options to the suburban strip mall, or don’t care. I want to engage all of those people in thinking about a vision for future development – even the ones who don’t care.
It doesn’t matter what the site is, the goal is to get people thinking about how neighborhoods work and how we can make them work better. I picked the Schnuck’s site because it represents a great opportunity right outside my own door. There are similar opportunities all over the City. I’m available as a consultant!
I was just thinking/wondering about this site the other day. The parking lot is vast and I’ve never seen it more than 1/4 full. Seems like an enormous waste of space.
Is the size of the parking lot mandated by any law/zoning code? Is there any reason Schnucks could sell parts of that lot for development?
That area has so much foot and vehicle traffic, and it seems that many businesses are profitting from that heavy traffic. If that area is known to be a heavy traffic area and thus good for consumer sales in general, it seems like a waste to have so much empty space sitting there unused.
There is another example of underground parking at a Safeway in Menlo Park, CA as well. Property is scarce enough there that any other type of parking for a grocery store is prohibitive. From my memories of living and working in the area, it was accepted by the shoppers quite well even with the great weather all year round. Given the more tempestuous weather of the midwest, I would rather park in covered parking. In addition, there is the additional feeling of security from good lighting and security cameras as long as the ceiling isn’t too low. Target at Hampton and Chippewa has a nice garage that fits any SUV comfortably.