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The McDonald’s Saga Continues

This morning’s hearing on the proposed McDonald’s at 3708 S. Grand was interesting to say the least. On one side we had folks from Pyramid, a McDonald’s rep, the McDonald’s franchise owner and Alderman Jennifer Florida. On the other side you me, a number of nearby residents and Alderman Craig Schmid.

Here is a brief summary:

  • Ald. Florida attempted to put a positive spin on the whole project by calling the proposed McDonald’s “urban-style” and “pedestrian-friendly.” She also said, I kid you not, that the McDonald’s was the “lynchpin for future development occurring” (I thought I was going to lose my breakfast).
  • The franchise owner, James Procter, said they must close their current location at 8pm each night due to crime in the area but they’d like to have the new place open until 11pm. I guess it never occurred to him that perhaps his poorly lit and dirty establishment might the cause of any crime issues (or perception of crime issues) in the area.
  • It was stated that the franchise is up for renewal and McDonald’s is requiring them to rebuild, relocate or close. From a citizen perspective I don’t think our urban planning should be decided based on a franchise agreement.
  • The list of speakers in opposition to the proposal was long. However, the main focus was the conditional use of the drive-thru so I’m not sure how the concerns about trash and such will be taken.
  • Ald. Craig Schmid has been getting some bad press lately over his ideas around loud speakers and liquor licenses. I’ll leave those subjects for another day. On this issue he broke with the time honored practice known as “aldermanic courtesy” and publicly opposed the McDonald’s proposed supported by Ald. Florida. Go Craig!!!
  • The part after the meeting was better than the meeting. I watched as residents had words with Ald. Florida (I always like a free show). Myself and others opposing the project are getting organized for the bigger fight on remaining hearings on the project. Look for the campaign to kick off in the near future!

    Earlier today I was finally able to get a copy of the site plan for the project. OMG, It is worse than I had expected.

  • The site plan includes two 30 ft wide curb cuts along Grand and one 30ft curb cut along Winnebego. A total of three curb cuts!!!! Look for traffic nightmares as people are turning in and out of two cuts along Grand plus Winnebego. This many curb cuts in such a short distance create hazards for pedestrians, cyclists and those of us on scooters.
  • Two “monument” signs. These are the less intrusive type than the tall roadside type. However, at the hearing they indicated only one sign while the drawings indicate two.
  • 47 total parking spaces! The plan shows room for eight cars in the drive-thru lane.
  • The plan is also interesting in what it does not include. The “F” Neighborhood Commercial District requires a number of things before permitting a conditional use when adjacent to a residential district. One item is:

    f. Parking areas shall be screened at all property line with a 10-foot landscaped strip contiguous with or directly across an alley or public or private easement, other than a public street, from any existing residential use or dwelling district. Parking area screens shall consist of a minimum 2-foot high berm and a masonry or wood barrier that is at least 70 percent opaque and not less than 6 feet in height and shall be maintained in good order.

    In this case they show 15 parking spaces along the eastern edge of the site which is across an alley from a residential district. But the plan conveniently omits the required 10-foot landscaped strip along the alley. Out front we’ve got another issue:

    g. A landscape strip not less than 3 feet in width shall be provided along all public streets and shall contain 2-foot high solid landscaping or a masonry wall not less than 2 feet in height except that these elements shall not be required in approved driveways. Street trees shall be installed in the tree lawn, between the public sidewalk and public street, when the tree lawn has sufficient width, or street trees with gates shall be installed in public sidewalks where the sidewalk has sufficient width and is on an earth base with a minimum of 25 feet between trees not including driveways. A minimum of 15% of the lot area shall be landscaped, including screening areas.

    Looks like they might have 3 feet of landscaping at one point out front but barely. No landscaping is indicated on the drawings other than to indicate a few areas as landscaped. Lots of asphalt though!

    The building occupies only 10% of the total site. 10%!!! Sorry, you can’t get any more suburban than that!

    Ald. Florida said the project was “pedestrian-friendly” yet I see no evidence of such. At no point is a sidewalk provided for pedestrians to walk from the public sidewalk to the entrance of the establishment. If you are coming from the neighborhood to the east your only means of entering the site is through the 30-foot wide in/out drive and then walking through the drive area to the front corner of the building. If you are on Grand and wish to enter the restaurant you have the same situation, you must enter the site through the automobile entrance & exit areas. And if you are in a wheelchair you must wheel about 85 feet as if you are heading toward the drive-thru lane before you get to the one ADA ramp. Yeah right, pedestrian friendly my…

    No bicycle parking is indicated either. From the looks of things this does not appear to be any different than a McDonald’s they’d build along a suburban highway exit ramp.

    Once I get the document in PDF format I’ll do another post so everyone can see for themselves.

     

    Currently there are "15 comments" on this Article:

    1. Josh says:

      Once again everyone…. e-mail Alderwomen Florida here from the Board of Aldermen Site

      I really would like for these Aldermen/women to take some time to sit down and write out their definition of “urban” and “pedestrian friendly”. Because a larger part of being “urban” has to do with the overall connection to the street and the surrounding urban environment more than just the style of the building. And it definately does not involve floating in a sea of parking.

      Clearly she does not understand what URBAN is. By her standards what DOESN’T have an urban design?

       
    2. Huh? says:

      I didn’t know it was your job to be a plan reviewer?!?!? That’s funny.

      [REPLY – Someone has to do it. The city employees don’t always do their job when put under pressure from elected officials. Citizen oversight is the purest form of democractic participation. – SLP]

       
    3. Matt says:

      As citizens of the City of St. louis, isn’t that all of our jobs?

       
    4. Joe Frank says:

      Nice job, Steve.

      As you know, the Keystone Place site was originally in Craig’s 10th ward. I can imagine he is frustrated by the lack of attention and effort paid to the project both by Pyramid and by the current alderwoman. Now, Craig’s 20th ward abuts the project site, but does not include it. His western boundary is Tennessee north of Chippewa, and then Arkansas south of Chippewa.

      And this is not the first time Craig has broken the norm of aldermanic courtesy. Didn’t he oppose the demolitions on Juniata related to parking for BreadCo expansion / Tim Boyle?

      Sadly, the lady from the 15th is pretty buddy-buddy with the mayor’s office, and more to the point, it doesn’t really matter how many people in Dutchtown / Gravois Park get angry with her. Her power base is in TG Heights and maybe some other similarly upscale parts of TG South.

      [REPLY – You are correct on all counts. People across the street from Keystone are in Craig’s ward but with our f-‘d up ideas about “this isn’t your ward” they don’t get a say in the project outside their window but people a mile away do. Seriously wrong folks! – SLP]

       
    5. Brian says:

      The Grand-Winnebago site is barely in the 15th ward (Jennifer Florida), when the neighborhood it abuts is largely in the 20th ward (Craig Schmid).

      Schmid had every right to represent the opposition of Dutchtown residents against an alderwoman that hid plans from them, as Steve’s early blog post detailed.

       
    6. ME says:

      Joe:

      I have to admit,that I agree with you!! Jennifer Florida, was at the BPW meeting last night. The first time in 2 years that we have seen her. She was pumping the new McDump. And it was all about her, it was I,I,I,I. Never once did she say that anyone was behind this project but her. I don’t think that she went to Gravois Park for a support letter, as other alderman do

      You are so right about your comments about Gravois Park, she has some of Benton Park West as well. She never attends to the neighborhood meetings for both of the associations. But you bet she is Tower Groves like clock work. The Presidnet of BPW don’t include her on the agenda anymore, as he does Craig and Ken. As she has stated that she just don’t have to attend, she has other mettings that night.

      The sad thing is rumor has it she has her eyes on the Mayor office. All, I can say about that is SCARY!!! Mayor Jennifer Flordia!!!!! SCARY!!!

       
    7. Eric says:

      When is Florida up for re-election? I live in the 20th ward but am surrounded… it’s very frustrating to not have a “voice” about what is going on on the other side of the street. I’ve half considered moving to her ward just to vote against her.

       
    8. Me says:

      I would not move to her ward if you paid me.

      She is a lying, backstabbing BIT#&! And will do anything, I mean anyone to get ahead.

       
    9. Jason says:

      If the P in Proctor is right, this is part of P&P which owns a few McDonalds in the area. I already have issues with how they run their establishments, so I am sure this one will be no better. I would rather it not have a McDonalds at all!

      My question is where is the Architect? Shouldn’t they be the ones showing Their design? I dont think Pyramid was the one who did the drawings, so who did? The only side an Alderperson should be taking is that of the people. If the people want the development its up to them to back it, not create their own agenda and try to shove it down the throat of the neighbors.

       
    10. Eric says:

      Yeah, the Proctors own five McDonald’s franchises and live at #2 Westmoreland Place.

      In her original spiel to Gravois Park, Florida said that the owner of the McDonald’s at Grand and Chippewa was a struggling small time franchise owner that couldn’t afford to bring the current site up to McDonald’s Corporation standards, would lose their franchise, blah, blah, blah….

      Whatever, not too many struggling franchise owners live on Westmoreland Place!

       
    11. Personally, I think Alderman Florida should see this as an opportunity to get rid of a fast food restaurant on South Grand in favor of a business that brings more to the neighborhood than ugly architecture, asphalt, fat and trash. There are 12 McDonald’s restaurants within five miles of the 63118 zip code. I think we can live with only 11. Tweaking the design to come up with a slightly more urban McDonald’s is missing the point: a pig in spats is still a pig.

       
    12. ryan says:

      I live right down the street from this location and was displeased when i heard that this mcdonalds was going to be able to move across the street. I emailed my alderperson Florida about my concerns, she did call me right back and left me a very good voicemail here point being that since it is a private business as long as it conforms to building and zoning codes that there is nothing that she could do. She stated that she would prefer to have another business located there.

      I drive past this mcdonalds every-day, and there is no way that i would ever want to eat there the only times I have gone in is to rent a DVD from REDBOX but have stopped doing that due to their limited hours.

      With the revitilization of the Bank nearby and the storefront across the street on miami I really think holding off on allowing another fast food chain with an owner who has shown a lack of support for the local community and little concern for the maintenence and cleanleness of his establishment. Why let him have another chance when past history has shown he will have as little concern for this new site as he had for the previous one.

      I will say that this is not the only business that I would not be sad to see go. just to the south on Grand are the dis-count stores which I hate and Rent a center and across the street loan center which only pray on the poor.

       
    13. Dale Sweet says:

      Steve, I fully understand your thoughts about how it’s not really under the purview of a zoning hearing to discuss trash and noise, however it’s important to note that while neighbors want NO DRIVE-THOUGH RESTAURANT at Grand & Winnebago, it’s especially true, come hell or high water, that we do not want the Proctors’ ghastly McDonald’s there.

      This Gravois Park resident mostly understands the pedestrian/urban design/traffic/asphalt/curb cut/landscaping/lighting/parking aspects of the average project, but in addition to all of these necessary concerns it’s very relevant to note that Florida/Pyramid/McD/Proctor want to move an especially poorly managed franchise location to the new site, probably leaving behind yet another abandoned fast-food joint for at least a year.

      The current 3737 S. Grand McDonald’s has a poorly trained and managed staff, a particularly spotty health record, an unmaintained facility and a City-wide bad reputation. Heath Department records show a below-average rating (for the last three years), numerous CSB citizen complaints involving odors of sewage, dripping sewer pipes, uncleaned floors, bugs in soda, ants on floors, half-cooked burgers, poor hygenic practices and more. The drive-through speaker has been broken for months.

      The average citizen doesn’t give a $hit about what goes on at City Hall. Those who do and take off work to attend hearings should be excused for expecting officials, civil servants and elected representatives to listen to their complete concerns.

      As you and other posters agree, this is what is particularly disturbing about 15th Ward Alderwoman Jennifer Florida, whose follow-the-money, short-sighted and ego-driven strategies are cloaked in subterfuge, perhaps through necessity. While she doesn’t represent me, she represents folks across the street and does an indefensibly poor job at that.

      Ms. Florida is to be commended for her role in the SSN Bank and Melba project(s).

       
    14. Travis Cape says:

      It seems to me that the success of the SSN Bank and the Melba building rehabilitation is the lynchpin for the continuing growth of the area, not another fast-food restaurant!

      It would seem that the construction of a new McDonalds would be COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE to the success of those projects and the rest of the neighborhood. I surely wouldn’t want to buy a condo right close to that mess. Proctors has had years to address management and cleanliness issues with their present location.

      The answer is NOT to reward them with a new restaurant!

       
    15. josh wiese says:

      I spoke with Alderman Florida at a recent young dems mtg and she was fairly candid with me regarding the project as far as the uphill battle she was expecting (i think the hearing may have been that morning or the following?) to which I asked why do it then? What good would a McDonalds do for the neighborhood other than low wage jobs and provide a fairly unglamourous eyesore. She said that you really have to think of the overall picture as it relates to other projects that were also going to be going through such as the new affordable housing and the senior housing.

      She also knew that it was/is going to rustle alot of different feathers- “Damned if you do and damned if you dont” – but that that was part of the job

      To be honest I can kinda- but very slightly- see what she is alluding to but geez I would hate to be the developer putting in new condos and have this monster McDonalds right near your property- especially one that stays open til 11pm and reeks of grease and traffic.

      I find it very strange that Alderman Florida would be pushing something like this through given that I have also heard she is very progressive with her ward…

      Like I said I found her to be very open and forthright about the issue HOWEVER I live in the 24th and not the 15th so…

      By the by- kudos to Steve for hustling on this- you did a helluva job getting all of this information. I saw it posted the other day but waited to read it until tonight because I had to try and digest all of the info.

      [REPLY – Thanks for the kudos!!! Yes, Florida’s “big picture” line is a good one. But it is a sales pitch line. What is the big picture?

      The big picture is to hers & the Lawrence group we are abot to see the SSNB & Melba become transformed. Signed, sealed and soon to be delivered. That much is awesome.

      But the big picture with a new McDonald’s is the adjacent commercial properties on the same block will likely not get any higher density mixed use development as nobody is likely to make that short of investment next to a new drive-thru. The reality is that by building a new fast food restaurant we are condeming the area to be mediocre at best.

      Nobody has seen the alleged senior housing project from Pyramid. Keep in mind, this is the same Pyramid that was supposed to do Keystone Place 7-8 years ago so excuse me if I don’t believe it until I see it.

      If Jennifer Florida wants to talk big picture, fine. Let’s see the “big picture” master plan for Grand from Utah down to Meramec as well as Gravois. Lets involve all the interested parties in the planning process. Until that happens I don’t think she’s allowed to talk about big picture. – SLP]

       

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