Where is Dogtown?
I know where Dogtown is in St. Louis, but that wasn’t always the case.
Looking at the city’s list of neighborhoods you won’t find a listing for “Dogtown”
Dogtown is generally the three areas known officially as Clayton Tamm, Ellendale and Franz Park. Â Does anyone outside these three areas use these names? Doubtful.
– Steve Patterson
I had always heard that Dogtown was comprised of Clayton-Tamm, Cheltenham, Franz Park and Hi-Pointe.
I had always heard that Dogtown was comprised of Clayton-Tamm, Cheltenham, Franz Park and Hi-Pointe.
Not according to the City’s website.
Why would such a confusing situation be allowed to continue? Do the residents prefer it the way it is – with three or four neighborhood names instead of one? This situation is not unique to Dogtown.
Why would such a confusing situation be allowed to continue? Do the residents prefer it the way it is – with three or four neighborhood names instead of one? This situation is not unique to Dogtown.
Not according to the City’s website.
I’ve heard that many Dogtown residents don’t use the other names, or in some cases have even heard of them.
I’ve heard that many Dogtown residents don’t use the other names, or in some cases have even heard of them.
If it’s anything like Denver, the planning department needed to assign names to defined census tracts to apply for federal grants. Census tracts do not necessarily follow either perceived or defined neighborhood boundaries, nor do neighborhood residents always have a firm or consistent definition of their neighborhood (fuzzy boundaries). For better or worse, our small wards do a good job of defining neighborhoods, but confusion is by no means isolated to Dogtown.Â
If it’s anything like Denver, the planning department needed to assign names to defined census tracts to apply for federal grants. Census tracts do not necessarily follow either perceived or defined neighborhood boundaries, nor do neighborhood residents always have a firm or consistent definition of their neighborhood (fuzzy boundaries). For better or worse, our small wards do a good job of defining neighborhoods, but confusion is by no means isolated to Dogtown.
The parochial naming of neighborhoods is as much a part of nuanced St. Louis as is the distinction between city/county, lack of local control of the police department, and socially conservative democrats; patronage in the county offices, the ZMD, Soulard residents plating their cars in Illinois and St. Louisans in general badmouthing their own hometown; parades, parish picnics, and block parties; aldermanic courtesy, weak central planning, and skewed statistics; earnings taxes, alienation of the riverfront, and, the local meaning of the term “hoosier”. St. Louis doesn’t fit into a neat box.
The parochial naming of neighborhoods is as much a part of nuanced St. Louis as is the distinction between city/county, lack of local control of the police department, and socially conservative democrats; patronage in the county offices, the ZMD, Soulard residents plating their cars in Illinois and St. Louisans in general badmouthing their own hometown; parades, parish picnics, and block parties; aldermanic courtesy, weak central planning, and skewed statistics; earnings taxes, alienation of the riverfront, and, the local meaning of the term “hoosier”. St. Louis doesn’t fit into a neat box.Â
You forgot Cheltenham.
You forgot Cheltenham.
I didn’t forget anything, I looked it up. The Ellendale description says “The neighborhood is surrounded by Lindenwood Park, Clifton Heights, The Hill, and the other “Dogtown” neighborhoods of Clayton/Tamm and Franz Park.” No mention of Cheltenham.
Right, in the description of Ellendale, which doesn’t border Cheltenham. I’m pretty sure most people when asked would consider the area northwest of Hampton & Manchester to be in Dogtown.
Dogtown actually is made up of the Tamm/Clayton, Franz Park, Cheltenham, Hi Pointe, and a little of the Ellendale neighborhoods. Since it got it’s name in the early 1850s from the clay/coal miners who settled here living in ad-hoc shelters such as tents and shacks while doing their mining. These encampments were called “dogtowns” referring to the miners as doggies (digging holes for the clay and coal). At that time there were many of these encampments throughout the United States. The miners, in most cases, would pack up and abandon the encampments after the mines petered out. Our neighborhood is unique in that the Worlds Fair came along in an opportune time and the miners found work building the fairgrounds. They stayed put, built homes and affectionally kept the name. Our neighborhood is the oldest of four left in the country who maintained the tag Dogtown.
St. Louis city never officially recognized the name Dogtown and that is fine with us. We don’t really feel the connection with St. Louis as living here is more like a Mayberry-like small town than an urban city burb.
Dogtown actually is made up of the Tamm/Clayton, Franz Park, Cheltenham, Hi Pointe, and a little of the Ellendale neighborhoods. Since it got it’s name in the early 1850s from the clay/coal miners who settled here living in ad-hoc shelters such as tents and shacks while doing their mining. These encampments were called “dogtowns” referring to the miners as doggies (digging holes for the clay and coal). At that time there were many of these encampments throughout the United States. The miners, in most cases, would pack up and abandon the encampments after the mines petered out. Our neighborhood is unique in that the Worlds Fair came along in an opportune time and the miners found work building the fairgrounds. They stayed put, built homes and affectionally kept the name. Our neighborhood is the oldest of four left in the country who maintained the tag Dogtown.
St. Louis city never officially recognized the name Dogtown and that is fine with us. We don’t really feel the connection with St. Louis as living here is more like a Mayberry-like small town than an urban city burb.
Very interesting commentary, and nuanced all the way. Much of StL city lacks the “urban city” feel you describe, but it’s StL city nonetheless. Much of the nuance that makes St. Louis unique comes from stories like this, which relate much more to the people of St. Louis than to lines on a map or the physics of “built environment”.
The city website says this in the description of Ellendale, “The neighborhood is surrounded by Lindenwood Park, Clifton Heights, The Hill, and the other “Dogtown” neighborhoods of Clayton/Tamm and Franz Park.”
Why don’t you add this explanation to Wikipedia? (alongside the explanation that already appears there)
 Very interesting commentary, and nuanced all the way. Much of StL city lacks the “urban city” feel you describe, but it’s StL city nonetheless. Much of the nuance that makes St. Louis unique comes from stories like this, which relate much more to the people of St. Louis than to lines on a map or the physics of “built environment”.Â
I didn’t forget anything, I looked it up. The Ellendale description says “The neighborhood is surrounded by Lindenwood Park, Clifton Heights, The Hill, and the other “Dogtown” neighborhoods of Clayton/Tamm and Franz Park.” No mention of Cheltenham.
The city website says this in the description of Ellendale, “The neighborhood is surrounded by Lindenwood Park, Clifton Heights, The Hill, and the other “Dogtown” neighborhoods of Clayton/Tamm and Franz Park.”
Not that it really matters, but I always thought Dogtown was Hi-Pointe, Franz Park and Clayton/Tamm.  This seems as meaningless as trying to define what is South City and North City.Â
Not that it really matters, but I always thought Dogtown was Hi-Pointe, Franz Park and Clayton/Tamm. This seems as meaningless as trying to define what is South City and North City.
It speaks to how the city markets our various neighborhoods.
The “city” doesn’t really market neighborhoods. Neighborhood marketing is more a function of local neighborhood, business district, and ward-based initiatives. There is no monolithic neighborhood marketing program stemming from a centralized government. Soulard markets Soulard and its events, as do the Grove, the CWE, Old North, etc. Much better that way. Can you imagine the committee paralysis if there were a city-wide marketing effort. It would never end. And Dogtown markets itself quite well, thank you. Much better than the “official” neighborhoods of the area. Everyone in the region (mostly) knows where Dogtown is. Cheltenham or Ellendale, not so much. Same can be said for the emergence of “SoHa”. Southampton became cool when it became “Soha”, much the same way Forest Park Southeast became a destination once people thought of it as “The Grove”. Same reason Gravois Park might be well served re-branded as the “Cherokee Neighborhood”.
But they do! “St. Louis is a city of neighborhoods. There are79 different neighborhoods, each with its own distinctive style and characteristics. Many of these neighborhoods have very active community organizations and associations. Some are on the rebound, while others have remained stable for decades, and still others are striving for renewal. A variety of sources for information about neighborhoods exist, both on and off this website. None of these sources include everything there is to know about a neighborhood, but by putting together information from each of these sources, one may get a sense of the incredible variety of lifestyles available in the diverse neighborhoods of the City of St. Louis.” http://stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/public-safety/neighborhood-stabilization-office/neighborhoods/
Good point.
Steve, I think the problem is that you can’t (easily) have it both ways. Who’s going to decide what’s a neighborhood and what isn’t? I’d guess that 90-some-percent of everyday St. Louisans (no matter how broadly or narrowly you’d like to define that term) don’t know where the Fountain Park neightborhood is, but that doesn’t mean we should stop recognizing it as a neighborhood.
I’d also guess that the vast majority of people who know Atlas think it’s in the Central West End, but I don’t think that’s a reason to give up the DeBaliviere Place designation.
The push to call each of the 79 neighborhoods by its name dates back to the Schoemehl administration. P-D lore says we fought that idea, but now our vaguely official style is to locate stories according to the city’s given neightborhood boundaries. (That said, we also recognize “Dogtown” and have a stylebook entry for it. )
When I moved from the CWE to north St. Louis in 1991 I located in what was then called Murphy-Blair but is known as Old North St. Louis. It is clear from these comments what defines Dogtown is unclear.
It speaks to how the city markets our various neighborhoods.
The “city” doesn’t really market neighborhoods. Neighborhood marketing is more a function of local neighborhood, business district, and ward-based initiatives. There is no monolithic neighborhood marketing program stemming from a centralized government. Soulard markets Soulard and its events, as do the Grove, the CWE, Old North, etc. Much better that way. Can you imagine the committee paralysis if there were a city-wide marketing effort. It would never end. And Dogtown markets itself quite well, thank you. Much better than the “official” neighborhoods of the area. Everyone in the region (mostly) knows where Dogtown is. Cheltenham or Ellendale, not so much. Same can be said for the emergence of “SoHa”. Southampton became cool when it became “Soha”, much the same way Forest Park Southeast became a destination once people thought of it as “The Grove”. Same reason Gravois Park might be well served re-branded as the “Cherokee Neighborhood”.Â
But they do! “St. Louis is a city of neighborhoods. There are79 different neighborhoods, each with its own distinctive style and characteristics. Many of these neighborhoods have very active community organizations and associations. Some are on the rebound, while others have remained stable for decades, and still others are striving for renewal. A variety of sources for information about neighborhoods exist, both on and off this website. None of these sources include everything there is to know about a neighborhood, but by putting together information from each of these sources, one may get a sense of the incredible variety of lifestyles available in the diverse neighborhoods of the City of St. Louis.” http://stlouis-mo.gov/government/departments/public-safety/neighborhood-stabilization-office/neighborhoods/
 Why don’t you add this explanation to Wikipedia? (alongside the explanation that already appears there)
Good point.Â
Steve, I think the problem is that you can’t (easily) have it both ways. Who’s going to decide what’s a neighborhood and what isn’t? I’d guess that 90-some-percent of everyday St. Louisans (no matter how broadly or narrowly you’d like to define that term) don’t know where the Fountain Park neightborhood is, but that doesn’t mean we should stop recognizing it as a neighborhood.
I’d also guess that the vast majority of people who know Atlas think it’s in the Central West End, but I don’t think that’s a reason to give up the DeBaliviere Place designation.
The push to call each of the 79 neighborhoods by its name dates back to the Schoemehl administration. P-D lore says we fought that idea, but now our vaguely official style is to locate stories according to the city’s given neightborhood boundaries. (That said, we also recognize “Dogtown” and have a stylebook entry for it. )Â
When I moved from the CWE to north St. Louis in 1991 I located in what was then called Murphy-Blair but is known as Old North St. Louis. It is clear from these comments what defines Dogtown is unclear.
Right, in the description of Ellendale, which doesn’t border Cheltenham. I’m pretty sure most people when asked would consider the area northwest of Hampton & Manchester to be in Dogtown.