Urban Review STL

throwing stones is always my first reaction to most controversy so anyone here whos been in the shoes of a homeless person
or walked to nowere or slept in the rain or used cardboad for a blanket or feed some one who was hungry when all you had was a can of soup your self or lost every thing or never had anything or had a computer to really count as a vote we;d all be a little less indifferent ..people who help hurt the ones that hate

I ORIGINALY GOT INVOLVED WITH NLEC BECAUSE OF THE RENEWABLE ENERGY
PROGRAM. BUT I WILL COMMENT ON THE FOLLOWING.THIS ISN'T ABOUT RELIGION,
I DON' T ARGUE RELIGION. I'VE LEARNED TO PICK AND CHOOSE MY BATTLES.

1. LARRY RICE ISN'T THE PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM IS HOMELESS PEOPLE. NO
MATTER WHERE LR GOES IT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT'S AN UGLY
SITUATION THAT NO ONE WANTS TO DEAL WITH. I MOVED OUT TO MISSOURI
LAST YEAR FROM MAINE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT PORTLAND MAINE AND BOSTON MASS ALL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM- PINE STREET INN SERVES MORE HOMELESS THAN NLEC DOES-MUCH MORE. IT'S A PROBLEM ALL OVER AND IT'S
NOT GOING AWAY ANY TIME SOON.

2. A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ( NOT ALL) HAVE POLICE RECORDS, HAVE GOTTEN OUT
OF PRISON, HAVE MENTAL ISSUES, DRUG PROBLEMS, SEX OFFENDERS.OR JUST PLAIN FALLEN ON HARD TIMES-SINGLE MOTHERS WITH MANY KIDS ECT.ECT.

3.WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF IS THIS. I WATCH CHANNEL 24 HOW PEOPLE
CAN'T PAY THIER POWER BILL OR THIS BILL, THE GAS BILL ECT ECT. I HAVE
THE SAME BILLS. BUT THEY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY SMOKES AND
ALCOHOL, THERES ALWAYS PLENTY OF MONEY FOR THAT, AND I WATCH PEOPLE BUY THEM EVERYDAY. I WATCHED A LADY LAST SAT HAND OUT PERSONAL HYGIEN KITS TO SEVERAL PEOPLE. ARE SOME PEOPLE DESERVING , YES THEY ARE,BUT LETS FACE IT , A BOTTLE OF SHAMPOO IS $ 1.04 AT WALMART. SMALL STICK OF DEORDORANT $ 90 CENTS -$ 1.50-LESS THA THE COST OF A PACK OF CIGARETTES.
. BOTTOM LINE IS THAT MOST PEOPLE NEED TO GET OFF THIER ASS AND GET WITH THE PROGRAM, OR AT LEAST GIVE IT A SHOT.

4. WOMEN AND CHILDREN- THE CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT IN THIS- A LOT OF
WOMEN I SEE HAVE 3-4 KIDS, MAYBE MORE ALL FROM DIFFERENT FATHERS
SOME ARE KNOWN , OTHERS UNKNOWN. THE WELFARE SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY HAS TO BE REVAMPED. ANY LAW THAT STATES HAVE MORE BABYS
YOU'LL GET MORE MONEY ONLY INVITES DISASTER. WELFARE IS A BAD INVESTMENT. ITS A WORSE INVESTMENT THAN BUYING A NEW CAR. AT LEAST THE CAR IS WORTH SOMETHING TWO YRS LATER, WELFARE IS WORTH NOTHING. THE GOVERMENT LOVES IT BECAUSE THEY CAN CONTROL EVERYONE WHILE THE TAXPAYER FOOTS THE BILL-THERE IS NOTHING TO SHOW FOR WELFARE,EXCEPT A SOCIETY FALLING APART BECAUSE GOV PAYS PEOPLE NOT TO WORK. THE GOVERMENT IS FRIGGED.

5. WELL AT LEAST LR IS TEACHING SOME OF THESE PEOPLE ABOUT RENEWABLE ENERGY. A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE COULD GET JOBS IN THAT FIELD BECAUSE IT IS AN UP AND COMING TECHNOLOGY. THE REASON GAS , UTILITYS ARE SO HIGH
IS BECAUSE THE DAY OF THE OIL CO , COMBUSTION MOTORS, UTILTY COS ARE
COMING TO THE END AND THEY ALL KNOW IT. SO BEFORE YOU GRIPE ABOUT
LR AND HIS BEGGING ON TV- LOOK AT THE REAL PROBLEM AS TO WHY THIS HAPPENS.

All caps is equal to screaming. Please don't scream on my blog.

well with all due respect-i never knew the typing in caps is equal to screaming on your blog.
however being a mg in the army if you want screaming you can go to fort jackson south carolina for 15 weeks and you'll find out real quick about screaming-than get back to me
on the subject.

All caps has been considered internet screaming for 15+ years. Screaming may be fine for shouting orders but lousy for a conversation. Also, I'm too old and too gay for the Army.

i'll keep that in mind- you are the first person to ever say that in all the years
i have been on the internet. however, the reason we can argue back and forth
in this society is because our service men ( including my son) and women are over in afganistan. we will win-go usa. if i have to go over there i will.

He's right. It IS shouting if not used just for occasional emphasis. Plus, it's incredibly difficult to read. I tend to ignore anyone who types in all caps.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_caps

Internet

This form of typography also appears in on-line forums. It was once an inevitable byproduct of using machines with limited support for lowercase text (such as certain early Apple II models), but as full support of ASCII became standard, it became solely identified with "shouting" or attention-seeking behaviour. As a result, netiquette generally discourages the use of all caps.

you people need to get a grip. i don't think its that big of a deal. ive got bigger
and more important things to worry about than friggin puncuation. like bombs dropping on my ass.

It was meant only as a friendly tip on how polite discourse works on the webosphere. And, like it or not, spelling and punctuation are important when one wants to be taken seriously. If you have more important things to worry about -- by all means -- go to it. Why then bother to respond?

well you have a point there. you see things in cilvilian terms , i see things in
military terms. to get my point across i'll see the joint chiefs of staff. so with that being said. i am going to hand out 100 sandwiches to the homeless vets
tonight.

I thoroughly endorse Reverend Rice's committment to energy conservation. I find his ideas and the teaching of those on Channel twenty four to be interesting and informative. i might object if such an establishment were to appear in my nieghborhood, but I do approve of the mission involved. Barbara a, author of "Cry Depression, Celebrate Recovery", coming out soon.

The stories of success are great, but the majority of people focus on the bad examples. The bad examples, whatever they may be, are the stereotypical NLEC resident. This is what the city sees, a few hundred people that have food and shelter provided for them so they can sit on the streets and commit crimes. This group hunts for currency throughout the day, then end up getting drunk, fighting, and relieving themselves on the street corners for all to see. As the night ends the residents gather near the center to stab each other or finish up a bloody steel pipe fight that were unsettled. Comparing NLEC to other shelters brings forth another great point. How many other shelters conduct themselves the way NLEC does? There is a line between enabling and rehabilitating. Conducting a shelter on a business model that is "gods love" leaves one very susceptible to being taken advantage of and just enables the lifestyle to continue.

My favorite posts have been the mystics trying to use logic for this argument. In your magical world you request facts to back up claims. Can you back your lifestyle up with facts? You base your lives on the interpretations of a book that can in no way be backed by facts. Using scientific reasoning with a pseudoscientific issue seems to be comparing apples to oranges. What does gods love say about walking your child next to two bums fornicating in a public park? How do you explain to your daughter that the man beating up a woman because she didn't give him a drink of beer at 10am is gods plan? At what point does one say quit enabling this problem and offer help to the truly needy? There are better ways to solve this problem than the path that NLEC has taken, hence its public reception.

I am a graduate of the NLEC training program. I know Larry Rice as I was in his program for 3 years. I am now a Broadcast Engineer. NLEC helped me personally by getting my life on track and giving me a vision and a purpose.

The ministry to the poor and needy and homeless is a very difficult and demanding work. Many start it and few finish, as it destroys them.
I have seen this personally. I worked the shelter desk many a night during my years in the program.
It is also a spiritual battle field.

Rev. Larry Rice has stayed the course. He does not kiss up to united way or the fed government much to the condemnation of his peers.

He has, and does help people. I don't need to read about it I know this.

For his detractors I suggest you leave your comfort zone and volunteer at NLEC then speak of it.
Larry Rice has literally put his life on the line many times. For what? a 27K a year salary from a multi million dollar ministry (that they spend to help the poor and needy). Yes I said 27K a year.
He does what the new testament says help those in need and frankly most of us don't.
The building is a old building I lived in it.

But when your cold and hungry it mattered little. A stainless glass sanatorium is what people would like to see full of gray robots and high technology. The ministry is about people not pie in the sky theory's from those who have not striven to the point of blood dealing with these issues. Maybe some here have helped those in need? If you have I can not help but say you have a kindred spirit in Larry Rice and NLEC.

That said there is always room for improvement. If you know the improvements maybe the Holy Spirit is asking you to do something about bringing them to pass. By helping.

Peace
Vis.

james, your accusations are sounding a bit far-fetched as well. your implication that steve is slandering rice/jansen because rice didn't buy the property MIGHT make sense if steve still stood to gain financially (follow the money, remember?) from doing so. but since steve is no longer attempting to sell the property, that accusation makes no sense. as for the "sore loser" bit, you're sounding a little sore yourself. so who should i believe?

[SLP — Well let’s see here, I am not the REALTOR for Larry Rice — if I were I would have advised him not to purchase property without first ensuring he could get zoning approval. Second, I have ceased to be the REALTOR for the property owner next door. What is funny is you acting as some neutral commenter without disclosing the extent of your relationship with Jennifer Rice.]

Steve, I have no relationship with Jennifer Rice, your accusations are really flying wild now. You may want to spend a little more time researching what you accuse on this website.

[SLP — LOL. Try Steve takes listing with price set by seller. Steve asked by seller to approach the property owner next door — Larry Rice. Steve consults with others about situation. Steve, against his better judgment, briefly mentions to Larry Rice if he had an interest in the property rather than immediately terminate listing. Larry correctly points out in 3-minute on the street conversation the price was too high. Steve and seller disagree over price and terminate listing. Steve now free to express views as a concerned citizen and resident of area to be affected.]

Steve come on, you can no longer play this neutral "concerned citizen and resident area" card anymore and make it sound like you were forced to try and sell Rice property in the exact area you are trying to rid him of nor are you now free to express your neutral, "concerned citizen views". If my Realtor ever tried to pull something like you are trying to do, I would report him to the Missouri Real Estate Commission.

[SLP --- Well let's see here, I am not the REALTOR for Larry Rice --- if I were I would have advised him not to purchase property without first ensuring he could get zoning approval. Second, I have ceased to be the REALTOR for the property owner next door.  What is funny is you acting as some neutral commenter without disclosing the extent of your relationship with Jennifer Rice.]

"i don’t see how this follows. why would steve be expressing a different opinion if rice had bought the property? 1) with the deal sealed there would be no reason to withold the opinion, and 2) steve could not have known rice’s intention to build a parking lot at the time, as rice has just recently dropped that bomb on the neighborhood. none of this changes the fact that rice has no business paving a lot in the middle of a residential street. at least not without the consent of the pre-existing residents. "

Follow the money here. Steve tries to sell property to Rice in Dutchtown. Rice declines Steve's property (no sale for Steve). Steve begins publicly slandering Rice for being in Dutchtown (after trying to sell him property in Dutchtown). Steve is even trying to slander Susan Jansen who Rice bought his property from.
At worst I would call this borderline extortion, at best Steve is sore loser.

Slander: is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.

Extortion: Threatening a victim's property or loved ones through intimidation or false claim in order to obtain money or property. This is a felony is most states. A direct threat to harm an individual is treated as the crime of robbery. Blackmail is a form of extortion when the threat to make embarrassing or damaging information public

Sore Loser: Someone who can't simply be honorable, by accepting defeat and/or trying again

[SLP --- LOL.  Try Steve takes listing with price set by seller.  Steve asked by seller to approach the property owner next door --- Larry Rice.  Steve consults with others about situation.  Steve, against his better judgment, briefly mentions to Larry Rice if he had an interest in the property rather than immediately terminate listing.  Larry correctly points out in 3-minute on the street conversation the price was too high.  Steve and seller disagree over price and terminate listing.  Steve now free to express views as a concerned citizen and resident of area to be affected.]  

clarification: i keep assuming that the parking lot is the issue at large here - that's probably not the case for everyone. i have no problem with rice's intentions for a renewable energy center (although i'm curious/skeptical about his qualifications). however, the "oops. i didn't realize i couldn't put a parking lot here in the middle of your residential street. you don't mind if i go ahead and do it anyway, right?" routine is not acceptable.

[SLP -- My understanding is that tomorrow's hearing has nothing to do with the parking lot --- just the use of the storefront/greenhouse.  The proposed parking lot is on separate property he also owns.  I'm not sure if his sign is part of this hearing or not.  For me the idea of these fairs drawing large crowds is the issue --- regardless of a parking lot or not.]

"Again, if Rice would have purchased the property from your client in Dutchtown, [steve] would most definitly be singing a different tune."
.
i don't see how this follows. why would steve be expressing a different opinion if rice had bought the property? 1) with the deal sealed there would be no reason to withold the opinion, and 2) steve could not have known rice's intention to build a parking lot at the time, as rice has just recently dropped that bomb on the neighborhood. none of this changes the fact that rice has no business paving a lot in the middle of a residential street. at least not without the consent of the pre-existing residents.

"SLP — LOL, like I would be fine with a conditional use of the building that involved large gatherings and a dedicated parking facility otherwise? Hardly."

Again, if Rice would have purchased the property from your client in Dutchtown, you would most definitly be singing a different tune. Your attitude toward Rice and anyone supporting Rice is obviously contentious.

"It is no secret that I briefly had the small house next door listed for sale — it was on my blog. And it was my duty to my client to find a buyer for the property and as such I did seek out Larry Rice as requested by my client. I didn’t want to do it but I had no choice but to — this is when I found out he had purchased the small house and land and not just the greenhouse. However, my client and I did not see eye to eye on things (such as the price and condition mentioned above) so the listing was terminated. With the conflict of interest now gone I was free to express my thoughts and concerns about the future of this block — a block that I personally lived on for 10 years. I had already written about the small frame house going before the Preservation Board (prior owner) and this is simply a continuation. I’m not getting back at Larry Rice for not purchasing the house — my views are no different than if I never would have had that listing."

Well no. By approaching Larry Rice to buy property in Dutchtown from your client and Larry choose not to does in fact taint your outspoken opinions on Larry Rice in Dutchtown. Citizens (even Larry Rice) should be protected by a Real Estate law from such activity.

[SLP --- LOL, like I would be fine with a conditional use of the building that involved large gatherings and a dedicated parking facility otherwise? Hardly.]  

I don't know Larry Rice, and I'm not very familiar with this neighborhood, but I do know zoning and neighborhood dynamics. This posting and the related issue/property illustrate a classic challenge in any neighborhood, the combination of many neighbors not being receptive to change of any sort (NIMBY) combined with using zoning rules and regulations (on both sides) to "decide" the issue. A new buyer wants to significantly alter the existing use of a property and the neighbors are perfectly fine with the way it is/was, yet they have no financial interest in the property, so both sides, instead of working directly with each other, dig into corners of the zoning ordinance and exert whatever political clout they have to move their position forward in an adversarial manner.

With 20/20 hindsight, Mr. Rice would've been forthcoming with his intentions and the Alderman would have facilitated a public process, essentially acting as a mediator, since government action is required. But, in apparently classic St. Louis style, much is happening behind closed doors without significant input from the neighbors. Is it "legal"? Probably. Is it smart? NO! Developing consensus won't solve all problems, but starting discussion before the two sides have "gone to the mattresses" beats where this property and the zoning "challenges" are now . . .

[SLP --- Neighbors do often take blame as NIMBY's but as you illustrate this is often in reaction to how the system works --- the behind the scenes decisions you allude to.  Neighbors often have little choice but to dig in when their representative goes along with what is perceived to be a bad deal.  The time for this discussion was a year ago when Rice's associate Susan Jansen bought the property and fixed it up.  Having a straw party buy property is very common and a great way to avoid being detected until it is too late.  Of course we all don't have financial interests in other properties but even the most hardened Libertarian can see that we need some sort of ability to collectively work toward a common community vision.  This is where we are lacking.  Not only do our leaders not solicit public input but they only don't try to work on a community vision.]

Steve, I know you will always have the last word on YOUR blog...
but your actions speak louder than your words.

I do feel it is time to address this "parking lot" issue in Dutchtown, in order to do so, you need to know the whole story:
The author of this blog, Steve Patterson, approached my father (before he began these public blog slams) on behalf of his client who is trying to sell his property next to Rice's. Steve approached my father and asked him if he would like to buy his client's property. My father turned him down because the cost was too high and the house required a lot of improvement expenses. After being turned down by my father, Steve Patterson began blogging about the evils of having Larry Rice in Dutchtown. In regards to the parking lot, my father is researching an environmentally friendly parking lot, BUT the important point here is: Look what happens when you turn down Steve Patterson's real estate.

(Sorry Steve, but I feel this is a very important point in this "discussion")

[SLP --- It is no secret that I briefly had the small house next door listed for sale --- it was on my blog.  And it was my duty to my client to find a buyer for the property and as such I did seek out Larry Rice as requested by my client.  I didn't want to do it but I had no choice but to --- this is when I found out he had purchased the small house and land and not just the greenhouse.  However, my client and I did not see eye to eye on things (such as the price and condition mentioned above) so the listing was terminated.  With the conflict of interest now gone I was free to express my thoughts and concerns about the future of this block --- a block that I personally lived on for 10 years. I had already written about the small frame house going before the Preservation Board (prior owner) and this is simply a continuation.  I'm not getting back at Larry Rice for not purchasing the house --- my views are no different than if I never would have had that listing.  Nice try Jenny Rice!]  

that's all wonderful about how larry rice wears cheap suits and helps the poor, but that still doesn't earn him the right to break/ignore zoning regulations (or to give the neighborhood such an ultimatum - parking lot or homeless shelter - if indeed that is the case).
.
"Anybody who is sitting at home nights either posting on websites or playing on their computers do not seem to be getting much done in the “help the homeless category”
.
let's not start this crap. you, kim, were apparently sitting somewhere around 6:52 in the evening posting on this website. i'll let you ponder the irony. and i'll reiterate: blogging does not preclude action.

Larry Rice is not the answer? Then who the $^%* is, I ask?

Anybody who is sitting at home nights either posting on websites or playing on their computers do not seem to be getting much done in the "help the homeless category"

The people who are doing the complaining are usually those who never do much to help out themselves, don't understand or care to try to understand the mission statement of the helping organization or they are just plain troublemakers who can't imagine that anyone would sincerely dedicate their lives to help others so they attribute sinister motives to those who will do it.

I do not know Larry Rice except by sight and I was not overly impressed-but then I am a very shallow person when it comes to appearances.

He wears cheap suits and lives like a poor person. (because he uses the money for the homeless)-This is not what I would do- I would take enough money to live decent and then help the homeless with what was left-he does the opposite and is not like me in this regard.

He is constantly begging for funds to pay utility bills for fat lazy women who have babies with way too many different men and who need to work and pay their own bills- He treats them with respect and gives out 10's of thousands of dollars to help them- I would NOT

I do, however, have a special place in my heart for the homeless and I have volunteered and fed (at my own expense) homeless at several downtown shelters, so I am fairly knowledgable about them all.

I have also volunteered at the New LIfe Evangistic Center.

I can not imagine what anybody-could possibly say against what Larry Rice is doing. (except people from other not-so-legit-shelters who want to stop his donations, so they can get them themselves)

New Life shelter is part of a ministry to help homeless and was started with his own money-while his family lived in a cheap trailer that I would not have spent the night in-much less lived in.

He gets no assistance from the government that requires him to compromise his christian faith-which makes some government run programs very angry with him.

I do know that the majority of the homeless that I have worked with-which is many and I know them fairly well-have no complaints with New Life and the ones that do are usually repeating something that they have heard and not actually seen or experienced themselves.

New Life is dealing on a daily basis with an OVERWHELMING amount of people in need.

The do have rules that must be followed and that makes some trouble makers angry-but if they did not-they could not possibly offer anything but a chaotic dangerous place for homeless to stay.

Being involved in the homeless community allowed me to hear gossip and rumors about every shelter and organization out there- but for the most part-none of it was true-especially the rumor about the shelter that was cooking and feeding it's homeless to Venusians.

So, while I do not know what is going to be happening in this building with the energy program, I just wanted to clear the air regarding Larry Rice and the New LIfe center

The homeless is such a huge problem and we need to not slam anybody who is helping especially when they are doing it at their own (and family's) expense.

Respectfully,
Kim
a homeless volunteer and NOT a member of the Larry Rice fan club.

Respectfully Studs,
you make me laugh... "flinging wild rice", was very creative. As for the rest of your post(s) I have yet to see your points being backed up with facts and statistics. To put it bluntly, your statments or shots at Larry Rice seem very cheap to me. You state: "Like many other city residents, I have very strong feelings about property owners whose irresponsible behavior adversely affects the larger community." Could you please prove to me (with facts and statistics) how Larry Rice has irresponsible behavior and how it has effected the "larger community"?
I think it would be interesting to compare your "facts" (when you get them together) to the percentage of people Larry Rice and his ministries have helped and supported for over 35 years.

In reply to you visiting his ministries, I don't doubt that you have... (you have right?) in fact, I bet you have been to his downtown shelter and talked with him in person, perhaps even seen his "irresponsible" behavior in action, right? What exactly did that look like? You've been there right? Well please tell us about when people (yes, even St. Patrick's clients) come to NLEC for shelter, food, clothing, utility assistance, fans, heaters, blankets, air conditioners, wheatherization materials, counselling, or prayer, and they are given what they need... please do tell about the irresponsible behavior. I've obviously been there as well, and I've seen MANY people helped, perhaps even had their lives saved, here is the behavior and actions I viewed:
-a 68 yr old women received an air conditioner in 104 degree weather- NLEC even delivered it to her home and installed it for her
-a homeless male addicted to crack received counselling and the opportunity to work on a farm away from the city and his drug past
-a homeless female with 4 kids received food and shelter after she fled from an abusive relationship
-a homeless male received clothing and a hygiene kit for a job interview
- a female received funds for her electric bill so the electric company wouldn't shut her electricity off

That was just one day.
If you call that irresponsible behavior or sinful, well, I think you need some help.

Gangs in the 25th ward? What are the cops doing about it?

i live in the 25th ward and really my concern is gangs and guns. i don't think that larry rice and this particluar project will necessarily bring problems to the area. what is a problem is the number of children in the streets without adult supervision after dark, the gunshots, the groups of young men dressed in the same color walking through the alley looking for cars to break into, the gunshots, the out-of-state landlords/property owners who should be penalized for the criminal behavior of their tenants, the gunshots, i could go on. the problem is not the families, couples and single people (who are a diverse bunch) who keep up their property, pay taxes, and generally maintain a peaceful, law-abiding existence. there is also a huge problem with litter but that's a different topic.
the way i see it, if there is no actual shleter, what is the problem? larry rice's project will not bring any type of person into this ward who isn't already here. i'd rather have homless people in the area than gangs.
just my 2 cents, thanks.

Wow yourself, Jen. Before you lumber straight into flinging condescending wild rice worthy of the Reverend himself, ask yourself this question: why is the benevolent New Life Evangelistic Center (along with its angelic proprietor) subject to such dogged and consistent criticism from so many disparate quarters while other outfits serving the homeless downtown and elsewhere like, say, St. Patrick Center, are not? Maybe you nailed it: people who don't esteem NLEC's manner of "serving" the homeless simply need counseling and medication. Or perhaps, I humbly submit, there is at least one other explanation. This explanation involves the condition of the NLEC building, the conduct of those it "serves" in the larger community and the refusal of certain individuals to reckon with either. I just think it's a possibility you should consider. For whatever it matters, I don't hate Larry Rice, but I hate what he does. Sin and the sinner, you dig. Larry could probably dig it himself, though I am not a religious man. Like many other city residents, I have very strong feelings about property owners whose irresponsible behavior adversely affects the larger community. If they make medication for feeling that way, I'll stay sick, but thanks for caring. As for breathing in and out, I've made a habit of it. As for "visiting" NLEC shelters and basking in the sublime company of Reverend Rice himself, what makes you so sure I haven't?

Jen, you make a great point. Everyone has the opportunity to discuss/debate this matter during a community meeting at the DSCC office at 4204 Virginia to be held on Oct 10 at 7:00pm. Larry Rice and Dorothy Kirner should both be in attendance.

Wow. First off, to all you Larry Rice haters out there (including the author of this post), RELAX. BREATHE IN. BREATHE OUT. It is obvious you have quite a bit of personal issues with Larry Rice. I would recommend counselling, perhaps even medication. I would also recommend visiting the Energy Center in Dutchtown and the NLEC shelters downtown or perhaps talking with Larry Rice himself, instead of hidding behind blog post.

Larry Rice has plenty to answer for before he should reasonably expect a warm embrace from Dutchtown or any other city neighborhood. From what I have seen and heard personally, the man's standard response to any and all legitimate criticism of his deplorable downtown outfit is to self-righteously condemn the critic and dun detractors for their appalling lack of compassion. Apparently it works well and keeps a lot of pols from really putting their collective foot down and in his ass. If he's sincere about respecting the communities he operates in, why can't he address the way his downtown operation is conducted? Instead of arrogantly buttonholing heartless yuppies, loft-dwelling plutocrats and their elected officials for not sharing his self-righteous zeal for the homeless biz, why not sit down and LISTEN? Why not meet people halfway at least and/or offer solutions of his own?

Speaking of pols, what the devil was Alderwoman Kirner smoking? Surely she's been swimming in political waters lo these many years and knows that the name of Larry Rice is bound to cause justifiable concern among her constituents.

I hope Dutchtowners are willing and able to invite Larry to stay the hell out of their neighborhood. Sorry to sound shrill here, but I'm sick and tired of city dwellers being condemned as "elitist" for striving to create a community many others take for granted.

IT IS CHANNEL 24. YOU SHOULD WATCH ONE OF HIS PROGRAMS, MON-FRI. 6 PM. CHECK OUT THIS WEBSITE WWW.MOREENERGY.ORG WHEN WAS THE LAST TIIME you SHOWED HOW MUCH YOU CARE FOR SOMEONE LESS FORTUNATE? WHAT HAPPENED TO "PAY IT FORWARD"


Matt

Dr. Larry Rice is about sharing and caring! There is no reason to be nonplussed. Larry Rice and his New Life Evangelistic Center Ministry is first-rate and blessed by God!

[SLP --- Not everyone shares your opinion!]

Hey...say what you want about Larry Rice, but he's doing his damnedest to make sure that all of our downtown parks have the population density you'd expect in a small apartment complex...

I don't really think that I am trying to squash diversity in the 25th ward. I am working on a rehab on the 4600 block of Louisiana. It's a nice, quiet block with a lot of good people.

I notice that there are quite a few homes for sale on my block and the 4600 block of Alaska. I don't know what we or government can do to get those properties owner-occupied. With the real estate market as low as it is right now, almost any qualified buyer should be able to move right in! I don't mean to be rude, but qualified means has down-payment and income.

The main problems I see for the 25 ward east of Grand is the relative low-class foot traffic. It's not proper, nor has it ever been proper to ask a perfect stranger for money! As many people as we have just wandering around south city it should be spotless.

Regarding the statement, “The 25th ward needs more owner-occupied, middle, and upper middle income housing”. “No more section 8 or rental housing, and definitely no homeless services”, my concern is with potential gentrification arising from the process of increasing home-ownership. The better model would include assisting existing residents in becoming owners of their own homes.

The Dutchtown region, including the 25th, 20th, and 9th wards, has much greater diversity than some other south-city areas. That being the case, we need to embrace all of the life-styles and socio-economic levels of our residents using common ground to build a strong community.

We are all concerned about a safe neighborhood, availability of housing and a vibrant commercial/business community. Let's not murder the diversity of Dutchtown with the gentrification being seen in other areas on the rise.

it's my understanding that this building well be used for St. Louis Renewable Energy Center, no homeless.

Obviously this sale was made in retaliation for the denial to demolish the property. If you can't demolish, sell to someone that will surely irritate the neighbors.

Someone quoted this earlier and I do agree with it, however not liberal enough.


“The 25th ward needs more owner-occupied, middle, and upper middle income housing”. “No more section 8 or rental housing, and definitely no homeless services”

The entire St. Louis area needs a mix of residents: age, race, gender, economic, and whatever else. More problems occur in the city because we have more residents that have problems, duh!

AWB,

I forgot...sarcasm doesn't always get conveyed online. I'm no advocate of Mr. Rice. Does anyone actually watch Channel 46?

County,

I think there is more to learn about Larry Rice than what is broadcast on his TV channel. Try talking to people who have spent time in his shelter or who offer other homeless services in the area. We definitely need to work on the problem of homelessness but I don't believe Larry Rice is part of the solution.

Ooops, I must have been thinking of the 20th ward....my bad.

Is that the Susan Jansen whose body was discovered in a recycling facility in May? It seems a strange coincidence since it was reported that she was homeless, although the name is probably not that uncommon.

[SLP --- Apparently the name is pretty common as this is a different person who is still living and was able to sign the paperwork to sell the property per the records I obtained from City Hall.]

Here it comes....

"The 25th ward needs more owner-occupied, middle, and upper middle income housing". "No more section 8 or rental housing, and definitely no homeless services".

[SLP --- Nobody has said that yet.  Furthermore, this center does purport to be  shelter or offer homeless services.]

Perhaps this has the potential to be a good thing and not the warehouse that NLEC's downtown spot has been. I look at the City Seeds (Sprouts?) farm in that vacant patch of ground between the highway exits and the Hampton Inn on Market as a fine example. I'm a big supporter of urban farming and sustainability issues and can see this being a positive thing for the city. Of course, it will need to serve (or be staffed by) a homeless population who are looking for and able to receive help and not the seriously drug addicted or mentally ill who need services much different than this sort of place. And, it seems, services much different than the NLEC center on Locust provides...

If you want to learn more about Larry Rice, you need to watch Channel 46. (Or is it 47... :-/)

So what's his plan? I'm sort of bewildered myself. A renewable energy center? I went to their website and failed to see anything that struck me as shocking. On the other hand, I have heard so many negative things about his downtown shelter.

Actually, looking at neighborhood statistics, the 25th ward is a good place for a facility that serves the poor, the homeless and the near homeless. Contrary to the publicity around homeless near downtown, the largest growing population of homeless people are women with children--folk are who are served worse by the strategy of lumping homeless in large, poorly managed shelters. The city needs more of these type of places and less shelters.

I wonder how many 25th ward people gave a hoot about Larry Rice's downtown operation? Now that he's roosting in the 25th ward, people there get the wakeup call. And we wonder why it's difficult to get community action on "big issues"? Most folks only get invested in the stuff that affects them personally, in their wallet, or in their neighborhood. So much for cooperation!